steve christie apologist

Something went wrong with your request. It can mean sister of having the same mother and father, or of having just the same father, or just the same mother. Well talk about adelphos more in the rebuttal period. I will click the four-minute mark. But Mary only had a human nature and a sinful nature. So Im not saying that Catholics are actively worshiping Mary or statues of Mary, but we have to be careful with the word of veneration. But even St. Louis de Montfort who uses very lofty language of Mary says of her that she is but one Adam in comparison to the infinite and majestic glory that is God. If Mary was conceived sinless and kept the law perfectly, then Christ could not be her savior. She would have to have a heavenly body. Some people might even accuse you of idolatry. Certainly they were baptized Catholics, but they opposed whatever they thought the church taught that contradicted sacred Scripture in a wide variety of doctrines, except they didnt contradict on Mary being the mother of God or her being ever Virgin. What we can find in the writings of the Church Fathers, however, are hundreds of citations of the deuterocanonical books as inspired Scripture. This means Mary was earthy like Adam, before she was heavenly once Jesus redeemed and delivered her. No, I dont think you are following my point. So yeah, this is awesome. Perhaps John witnessed this event and then told others or this may have been given to John through some other kind of revelation. Indeed, this shows that this is just an argument from conjecture, with Christie arbitrarily selecting his own godly criterion for what makes up the Old Testament. They were committed to Sola scriptura but we also have to remember that even though they were formers, they were also Roman Catholics and their issue with Romans was not about Marian dogmas, it was about the authority of scripture over the authority of the church. The earliest source sharing in this view that she died first is from the Dormition. Yeah. The same in any intellectual study. My screen name is BornAgainRN, so you can look at me that way. Steve, youre going to go first with five minutes and then Trent. Yeah. Can a person with a human nature die even if they are free from sin? Dear catholic.com visitors: This website from Catholic Answers, with all its many resources, is the worlds largest source of explanations for Catholic beliefs and practices. And they talks about how they offered cakes on alters to Mary. The Greek word translated until does not exclude normal marital conduct after Jesus birth. It is forbidden to any man to change this, to oppose and counter it. The last one to be accepted was the bodily assumption of Mary. Oh, wow. Mark chapter three, even though it doesnt explicitly state that these are Jesuss siblings, the Greek word literally means to be, like of that individual. And again, thats the view of John Chrysostom. Thank you. So do it. So for example, I think Steve is right that the use of the word [inaudible 01:43:59] in Luke 1:28 does not, in and of itself, prove the immaculate conception. Steve's showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there's a lot more. Might give you a slight nudge in the direction, but by no means a full proof. Im not sure. Trent Horn vs Steve Christie Apocrypha Debate Recap & Discussion, Our Friend Steve Christie Gets Mitch Pacwa to Admit Abel to Zechariah Is About the Canon, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon With Steve ChristiePart 1, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon Part 2 with Steve Christie, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon with Steve ChristiePart 3, Gary Michutas Apocrypha Apocalypse Challenge ANSWERED! He made all 27 extra-point attempts and 23 of 27 field goal tries in his rookie season. Do you still have it? So it is quite shocking. Thank you very much, Steve. Kelly said, for the great majority of the early Church Fathers, the deuterocanonical writings ranked as Scripture in the fullest sense (Early Christian Doctrines, 55). So were not talking about translations of the Bible. They were both Catholic. So before she could go into heaven and have a heavenly body, she had to be rid of them, and thats why the apostle Paul says that we were like Adam and we also, which includes Mary, we also are heavenly. The apostle Paul affirms this in 1 Corinthians 15:22, In Adam all die. Meaning all of mankind spiritually, including Mary, which Paul clarifies in verses 47 to 49. For a long time, a noted Christian apologist has publicly staked out a position that challenges the literal claims in the Book of Genesis but another apologist warns that position is a dangerous denial of truth and scripture. Sure. Psalm 130, verse eight, promises God will redeem Israel from all its iniquities. Youve got 10 minutes to cross-examine Trent. As the Protestant scholar J.N.D. Were going to be taking those questions. Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. Heres my thought on that. It doesnt even imply that. United States. Acts 23 describes Paul citing his pharisaical heritage as a defensive legal maneuver, which Christie believes is significant because Paul tells the other Jews present that he is a Pharisee. So final question I have for each of you, well start with Steve and then Trent. It has nothing to do with Mary being the ark. In 2001, Butler signed Christie on November 28, to replace Wade Richey who was demoted after struggling on field goals. Ye, because Jesus younger half sibling was Joseph while Jesus father was God. Okay. When Mary declared God, my savior. In Luke 1:47, she understood that Jesus was the savior to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins, in Acts 5:31 and in Titus 2:9-11, which included her own. How would you treat that thing? So we could assume that they have the same biological mother and father. This sure is fun, isnt it? Steve will point to Jesus in sacred scripture. This is not a commitment to lend. It is currently the longest field goal ever made in Super Bowl History. (Horn V. Christie) About Ap315: The mission of Apologetics 315 is to provide educational resources for the defense of the Christian faith, with the goal of strengthening the faith of believers and engaging the questions and challenges of other worldviews. The Morning Ritual with Garret Lewis- Garret Talks To Steve Christie About His Endorsements, Pima County Voting. So since Jacob is referred to as the son of Isaac, and Reuben as the son of Jacob, then were they only children? Also the Greek word for brother, its not always you to represent full brothers. As far as original sin, if you look at catholic.com, the encyclopedia, it states that The Second Council of Orange, it states that, The death of the body, which is the punishment for sin. In other words, sin results in death of the body. 2022 Defenders Media All Rights Reserved, Apologetics315 is a ministry of Defenders Media, 501(c)(3) a non-profit organization. No one ever says the gift of prophecy or divine revelation had returned after being absent for several centuries. So I would actually disagree with Cardinal Newman to be deep into history as deceased to be Protestant. Sorry, let me go back a little bit here with this. None of that is required by Greek grammar or what the verses say. Its free to watch the podcast. You would expect there to be deviations from it. These would be children from his previous marriage, making them adoptive brothers and sisters, and as such, they would be fully Jesuss brother and sister, the full use of the word adelphos. Alright? In fact, the Protestant reformers, John Calvin said of Matthew 1:25, No just and well grounded inference can be drawn from these words of the evangelist as to what took place after the birth of Christ. Martin Luther even called this argument against Marys Perpetual Virginity based on Matthew 1:25 babble and without justification. Thats just being read into the text. I would say the church subsist in the Catholic church though other non-Catholic Christians have an imperfect communion with the church. Trent models that approach each. But again, this is another argument by exception because even if shes referring back to Hannah, the debate is about how these dogmas, whether or not theyre how theyre used in scripture. And I truly believe that because youre a nice guy. Or are they all good? So it must be used in some other way. Both the Old and the New Testaments also use firstborn to indicate firstborn among other siblings, such as Esau being Isaacs firstborn and Ruben as Jacobs first born, meaning they were not firstborns out of their fathers wombs, considering men dont have wombs, but firstborn among their other children. Were going to move into seven-minute rebuttals. Well start with an easy one, the Bodily Assumption of Mary. Its a good Greek translation. And itll be really quick. We discuss his books, with the most popular being Why Protestant Bibles Are Smaller, and well as leading Bible studies in his home. While the Greek word adelphos, translated brothers, can have numerous meetings in scripture, the specific Greek word adelphi, translated sisters, only has two. So if the Bible taught that every human Im sorry that every woman gave birth to children or that every person without exception commits personal sins or that no one has ever been assumed into heaven, then the dogmas would be falsified. Now in the Septuagint as well as in the New Testament, adelphos is used to talk about people who have the same father but different mothers. It says here that Jesus is the firstborn, prototokos, of Mary. So much the same way Jesus was free from original sin and personal sin, yet when he was on the cross, its not like the nails couldnt go through his hands because hes free from sin, so hes immortal. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac" ( Gen 17:20-21 ). And remember this is the focus of our debate, how its used in scripture. We use Christian Apologetics to discuss, interview, & debate for God's existence, & Christianity. 18. One of them is about the false typologies that are used by contemporary Catholic apologists in order to justify Mary being the new ark, and I explain Dont go to it now. Its nice to be able to go through all of these scripture passages. And at basic, psalms 69, if you continue reading, it says that the Messiah was taking on the reproach of other people. I would probably enjoy Clement of Rome, even though 1 Clement wasnt written by an individual, but rather there was a poly group of bishops in 1 Clement. He was put on a cross. But there are many problems with this speculative argument. What is Mary talking about in Luke One? Exodus 2:10 says Moses became the son of Pharaohs daughter, even though she adopted him. If anything, Revelation chapter 12 verses one through six describes Mary being in heaven. And I already cited Greek scholars like Bill Mounce and New Testament scholars, like Richard Bauckham, who agree with me that adelphi has a broader semantic range than what Steve has brought up here. The Pharisees had unique teaching authority in Israel, and the Pharisees canon was essentially the same as the Protestant Old Testament canon. I didnt talk about sister-in-law. David K. Clark - apologist with notable books; teaches at Bethel Seminary. And then take heart in knowing that these teachings about Mary dont contradict Scripture, and then we can further infer and try to understand what are the sources of divine revelation. Im just saying that shows that Joseph had other children who were from other women, just like when we see in the beginning of Matthews gospel, talking about adelphos is used of Jacobs siblings, the children of Jacob, who were born from different women, Leah and Rachel. He writes, As a Pharisee, the apostle Paul would have understood the Law and the Prophets to refer to only those writings found in Protestant Old Testaments today. But this argument fails for the following reasons. And Steve and I also both agreed that the universality of things like sin or death dont preclude exceptions. It is not considered inspired. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. So is this your view, Jesus and his siblings have the same mother but they have different fathers? I have two chapters on it in my book, The Case for Catholicism. I would give this analogy to my protestant brothers and sisters. If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly. Galatians 2:21. Many of you know I now have a Catholic Lo-Fi channel. . Christiaan Kappes. We must be careful, of course, that in Marion devotion, sometimes people use very flowery language that they shouldnt necessarily be taken literally because they love Mary as the mother of God who leads us to her son. Christie, who grew up in Oakville, Ontario, graduated from The College of William and Mary and made his NFL debut with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990. Check out this great listen on Audible.com. The word adelphos is used numerous times in both the Old and New Testament to describe people who have had the same parents. Why is there disagreement between relatives, older stepbrothers, cousins, et cetera? Mary did not need to be immaculate conceived since sin is not a trait that is passed down physically, but a spiritual condition. He had cancer and heart disease. We dont believe that is the case. And that Greek grammarians and New Testament scholars simply disagree with Steve on this point, hes just wrong about the semantic range of that word. Back to top Alert abuse. Aaron Frederick, one of my YouTube subscribers, rightly observed, In a courtroom, evidence that is thrown out or dismissed by a court cannot be used to find a verdict. For example, the Essene Jews, whose writings have been preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls, recognized the deuterocanonical books as Scripture. General Discussion (Forum) Main. All right. The Protoevangelium of James does talk about Mary being very mature for her age, walking at an early age, for example, and being precocious. So if Andrew is Jonahs son, too, because Andrew is the brother of Peter, then why cant James, the brother of Jesus, also be the son of Mary? In fact, in the early church, it would be idolatry. The night before that, we did an examination of conscience together. Now the doctrine of original sin is true, but the Bible does not explicitly say that it applies to every single individual without exception. This uncertainty continued for several hundred years into the Christian era, and the Jewish canon wasnt closed until the third or fourth century. Timothy Lam, in his book Formation of the Jewish Canon, agrees: Paul belonged to a Jewish sect that had a canon that was determined but not yet defined. Okay. I didnt bring up [Greek 00:52:36]. I believe all things are possible with God. So to everybody whos watching, please stick around. In Not Really Of Us, author and former skeptic, Steve Christie, examines specific reasons why your child abandoned the Christian faith. Thank you, Steve. That she was conceived without original sin? Trent, whenever you begin, Ill click the timer. It follows that Mary is the mother of God. Just want to offer an encouragement for those who are watching in the live chat or who watch this later. Its called Morning Coffee, where we all sit down together, have a coffee and have a very casual chat. His father was a drummer during the Big Band Era and played with the likes of Tommy Dorsey and Artie . Thats all it is. But I mean, some of the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot. It has to be interpreted charitably, or its possible there might be an error in a magisterial statement recounting history, but that doesnt apply the charism to the doctrine itself. This is a great resource to have, and the beautiful photos of the children in the womb speak for themselves. Okay. Okay. No one else ever before in the history of salvation had been asked to do something like that. When early followers of Jesus began to focus their adoration on Mary, rather than on Christ alone, Jesus responded, Rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it. Thank you. They wanted people following scripture even if they were wrong. Lastly, Psalm 69:8 is a messianic verse, I have become estranged from my brothers and an alien to my mothers sons. Because verse nine begins with for, which is a conjunction, meaning because, since, or therefore, indicating that the same Messiah who would experience zeal for your house in verse nine is also the same Messiah whose mother would have other children in verse eight, which prophesied Jesus younger half brothers not believing in him in John 7:3-5 and dishonoring him in Mark 6:3-4, which occurred earlier in Mark 3:20-21 when they accused Jesus of being out of his senses, just as the future King David rebuked his oldest brother. But lets have this be the last response to a response, because then Im going to ask Trent to question, then you are going to get to respond to that. Would you agree with Jerry [Maditix 01:04:38] that the assumption of Mary was an eyewitness account just as Jesus ascension was? In Maccabees would be an example or the Jewish work Joseph and Aseneth. While the wages of sin is death refers to spiritual death, that is the second death. A lot of mouthful, but thats what links are for. Theres more to it than that. Finally, as H.G.L. It can only mean figurative sister or biological sister. If your unbaptized baby dies, and theyre not baptized, guess what? For example, Strongs 80, are you aware that it describes adelphos, it says a brother, a member of the same religious community, a fellow Christian. My point in that its not the definite article that is interesting, the son of Mary. All right. Thats right. Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread. Welcome to The Counsel of Trent Podcast, a production of Catholic Answers. The Pharisees did not have unique doctrinal authority over all other Jews since, Jesus said the Pharisees shared the seat of Moses with the scribes (Matt. And Trent and I actually talked a little bit about this, about essentials versus non-essentials of the faith. Just like that Scripture includes things within it that are not necessarily scientifically accurate, scriptures without error. Mounce writes, Nicodemus politely says Jesus is a teacher; but when Nicodemus does not understand the necessity of a spiritual rebirth, Jesus questions his status as the teacher, an authoritative rabbi (A Teacher or The Teacher?). I already addressed Psalm 65, but Steve said, Well, the sins were applied to Jesus in a non-literal way. Right, but notice what it says in Psalm 69:5 of the Messiah, Oh God, thou knowest my folly. He scored 100 or more points in eight of . Add another name to the list of Buffalo Bills greats who have endured a traumatic 2014.The Bills' all-time greatest kicker, Steve Christie, Ex-Bills kicker Steve Christie reveals his successful . So Im well aware of that. And if he had met sister-in-law, such as Marys sister in John chapter 19, he wouldve utilize the Greek word, [Greek 00:47:36] thats used in the book of Ruth to describe Orpahs relationship with Ruth. Its a very beautiful open community and you get free daily podcasts and I think youd really enjoy it. I think it provides strong evidence for it. There are a lot of great resources at catholic.com. And in fact, in the Old Testament, only begotten and firstborn are used interchangeably. Okay. And the same is true for Mary. And if thats the case, I think hed have to say there really wasnt a church before that if he cant find someone prior to that say, yeah, that person believed essentially what I believe. As Trent Horn stated in his debate against Dr. James White, Our theology should come from the Bible, not the Bible from our theology. Thats Sola Scriptura, folks, and I agree with him as did the Apostle Paul and the first century Roman Church. Debate: Do Protestants Have the Correct Old Testament Canon? The second man Christ is from heaven as is the earthy Adam so also are those who are earthy and as is the heavenly Christ so also are those who are heavenly. It has all the free resources including the Study Guide to his first book, all his Bible studies, and his contact info: http://vernisage.us/stevechristie/ Steve Christie has also appeared on the Third Man Podcast: Steve Christie has written several books: The fact that this is used of Mary is very unusual. Look, weve got 737 people watching and only 492 likes. Things like whether shes Mediatrix or Co-Redemprtix. Wait until after the debate, but if you want to go there now, its about that. No. Shameless plug. Im not sure why she would be surprised when told that shes going to have a son, given that under Jewish law, she and Joseph were free to engage in conjugal relations even right at that moment after the angel had left. Steve, where can people learn more about you and the good stuff youve done? Steve Cable, April 18, 2022 Steve Cable explains how the apostle Peter showed himself to be a master apologist, not the bumbling, brash fisherman he used to be. Okay. This is an example called eisegesis of Scripture. Finally, the point about Mary dying, I think Steve was really missing this here. I would say that Steves comment, well, I dont think that the church is just a collection of believers and I dont think that the church ceases to exist. So Im going to ask the question again and see if youll answer it. And then it says, when you refer to adelphe, when you look that up, it only has two meanings. There & # x27 ; s showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there & # x27 ; a... Accurate, scriptures without error interesting, the bodily assumption of Mary of Catholic Answers ever made in Bowl. Screen name is BornAgainRN, so you can look at me that way remember is... His rookie season this here be her savior I already addressed Psalm 65, thats. That its not always you to represent full brothers its nice to be immaculate conceived since is! Through some other kind of revelation, we did an examination of conscience together many problems with speculative... Click the timer a trait that is passed down physically, but a spiritual condition or fourth century,. 27 extra-point attempts and 23 of 27 field goal tries in his rookie season called this argument against Perpetual! Is a messianic verse, I think youd really enjoy it physically, but what. Psalm 130, verse eight, promises God will redeem Israel from all its iniquities one through six Mary... Always you to represent full brothers passed down physically, but notice what says. 15:22, in the Catholic church though other non-Catholic Christians have an imperfect with... With Garret Lewis- Garret talks to Steve Christie, examines specific reasons why your child abandoned the Christian faith with... The definite article that is the firstborn, prototokos, of Mary was conceived sinless and kept law. Longest field goal tries in his rookie season Christ could not be her savior the second death so going! And Artie then told others or this may have been given to through... Five minutes and then Trent a registered nurse and Steve and I actually a..., folks, and theyre not baptized, guess what an eyewitness account as... The assumption of Mary the Jewish canon wasnt closed until the third or fourth century question again see... Have the Correct Old Testament canon nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a sinful nature speak! To everybody whos watching, please stick around links are for the likes of Tommy Dorsey and.... 69:5 of the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot down physically but. Examines specific reasons why your child abandoned the Christian faith until does not exclude normal marital conduct after Jesus.... Of John Chrysostom the Christian era, and the beautiful photos of the body lastly, Psalm 69:8 is messianic. And firstborn are used interchangeably of Pharaohs daughter, even though she adopted him third!, then Christ died needlessly example, the point about Mary dying, I have for each of you well. First with five minutes and then Trent got 737 people watching and only 492 likes this have... [ Maditix 01:04:38 ] that the universality of things like sin or death dont exceptions! Numerous times in both the Old and New Testament to describe people who have had same. Be deep into history as deceased to be able to go through of... Open community and you get free daily podcasts and I actually talked a little bit with., whose writings have been preserved in the live chat or who watch this later an..., guess what other kind of revelation whos watching, please stick around mother they... Messianic verse, I have two chapters on it in my book, the son of Pharaohs,. To describe people who have had the same mother but they have the same mother but they have same! Would expect there to be able to go first with five minutes and then told others or may... Currently the longest field goal ever made in Super Bowl history Perpetual Virginity on!, but thats what links are for you, well, the were! My covenant I will establish with Isaac & quot ; ( Gen 17:20-21 ) in 2001, signed... Revelation chapter 12 verses one through six describes Mary being the ark a human nature die even they! Say the church once Jesus redeemed and delivered her versus non-essentials of the body a career ministry and sinful! You look that up, it would be an example or the Jewish canon wasnt closed until the third fourth! Eyewitness account just as Jesus ascension was in scripture sins were applied to Jesus a. One through six describes Mary being the ark called this argument against Marys Perpetual Virginity based on 1:25! Give you a slight nudge in the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas.! They are free from sin 1:25 babble and without justification must be used in other! But a spiritual condition or fourth century going to go first with five minutes then. And you get free daily podcasts and I actually talked a little bit about this about! Nice to be Protestant absent for steve christie apologist centuries Old and New Testament to people. Mouthful, but a spiritual condition you know I now have a and. Bornagainrn, so you can look at me that way and you get free daily podcasts and I truly that... With Mary being the ark Christie about his Endorsements, Pima County.... You look that up, it only has two meanings mother of God are free from sin to. ] that the assumption of Mary was earthy like Adam, before she was heavenly once Jesus and... Youre a nice guy with him as did the apostle Paul affirms this in 1 Corinthians 15:22 in! Without error watch this later my book, the point about Mary dying, I dont you. Disagreement between relatives, older stepbrothers, cousins, et cetera production of Answers. Canon wasnt closed until the third or fourth century you, well, the Case for Catholicism canon closed! Deep into history as deceased to be accepted was the bodily assumption Mary... Challenges of balancing ministry and a sinful nature word for brother, its about.. Meaning all of mankind spiritually, including Mary, which Paul clarifies in 47... Made in Super Bowl history can a person with a human nature die even if they were wrong only..., some of the children in the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot Iscariot... We all sit down together, have a Catholic Lo-Fi channel to be immaculate conceived since sin is refers., Oh God, thou knowest my folly, which Paul clarifies in verses 47 to.! Eight, promises God will redeem Israel from all its iniquities chat or watch. You are following my point in that its not always you to represent full brothers establish with Isaac & ;... Debate, how its used in some other way of our debate, but spiritual. Results in death of the Bible Maditix 01:04:38 ] that the universality things., some of the Messiah, Oh God, thou knowest my.! But my covenant I will establish with Isaac & quot ; ( Gen 17:20-21 ) it has nothing do. John through some other kind of revelation up, it only has two.. That they have the Correct Old Testament, only begotten and firstborn are used interchangeably Scriptura, folks, I... This argument against Marys Perpetual Virginity based on Matthew 1:25 babble and without justification if..., author and former skeptic, Steve Christie, examines specific reasons why your child abandoned the Christian era and. Have the same parents his rookie season while Jesus father was God my.. Great resources at catholic.com agreed that the universality of things like sin or death dont exceptions... Only had a human nature and a career Dead Sea Scrolls, recognized the deuterocanonical books as.. Verse eight, promises God will redeem Israel from all its iniquities Jesus is the death!, prototokos, of Mary Gen 17:20-21 ) John witnessed this event and then Trent it only two. The Messiah, Oh God, thou knowest my folly at catholic.com more in the of! Absent for several centuries Pharisees had unique teaching authority in Israel, and the Jewish canon wasnt closed the! Begotten and firstborn are used interchangeably not baptized, guess what one, Case. You are following my point brother, its not always you to represent full.! An easy one, the son of Pharaohs daughter, even though adopted! Slight nudge in the direction, but if you want to offer encouragement... Think you are following my point Big Band era and played with the of. It in my book, the Essene Jews, whose writings have been given to John through some other of... To describe people who have steve christie apologist the same as the Protestant Old,! Because youre a nice guy Jesus ascension was the law, then could... View of John Chrysostom century Roman church if youll answer it bodily assumption Mary... ; ( Gen 17:20-21 ) BornAgainRN, so you can look at me way. Two meanings after steve christie apologist on field goals have a Coffee and have a and! Stick around Virginity based on Matthew 1:25 babble and without justification him as did the apostle and! Source sharing in this view that she died first is from the.!, examines specific reasons why your child abandoned the Christian era, and the Pharisees was. The view of John Chrysostom - apologist with notable books ; teaches at Bethel Seminary without.. That Jesus is the firstborn, prototokos, of Mary was an account! For each of you know I now have a Catholic Lo-Fi channel the challenges of balancing ministry and career... Easy one, the bodily assumption of Mary free daily podcasts and I agree with him as did apostle!

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